Kayla Crane and I are trained in the same school of thought.
Kayla shares the critical idea of taking space in your relationship – literally and in your head to create peace.
She also shares her experience with couples therapy, her meditation journey, and why she still meditates.
In this episode, find out how meditation helps cultivate second consciousness and what that means.
You can find Kayla here: southdenvertherapy.com
As well as on her Colorado Relationship Recovery page.
Kayla Crane and I are trained in the same school of thought.
Kayla shares the critical idea of taking space in your relationship – literally and in your head to create peace.
She also shares her experience with couples therapy, her meditation journey, and why she still meditates.
In this episode, find out how meditation helps cultivate second consciousness and what that means.
You can find Kayla here: southdenvertherapy.com
As well as on her Colorado Relationship Recovery page.
What is first and second consciousness in the context of your relationship? Find out what that means and why cultivating second consciousness is so important for the peace in your family and for your relationship welcome everyone. This is healthy relationships secrets for parents. The podcast of a saved your relationship from parenthood. My mission is to help parents have a thriving relationship and be great parents at the same time. My name is Jason Polk, and I've worked as exclusively with couples as a therapist and coach for over nine years on this podcast, I share my experience professionally. And personally. As well as those of our amazing guests. Speaking of amazing guests today, I'm here with licensed marriage and family therapist. Kayla Crane. Kayla and I are colleagues and comrades. In fact, she works in my agency, Colorado relationship recovery. And is an all star therapist. How do I know that? Because people continue to book with her and share positive reviews. So I'm so excited today because Kayla and I are trained in the same school of thought. She shares a really important idea. Of taking space in your relationship, literally and in your head to create peace. She also shares her experience with couples therapy. And her journey to meditation and why she still meditates today In this episode find out how medic. Meditation also helps cultivate second consciousness And what exactly That means All right let's get into
Track 1:so Kayla, how did you become a relationship counselor expert? What motivated you to be in this field?
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah, so I've always had an interest in, psychotherapy and just therapy in general. And I remember always taking those tests in high school where they project what you're gonna be. And it was always like social worker or therapist, that kind of stuff. And then, when I got older and I did a lot of my own individual therapy. I did a lot and I experienced some really incredible therapy and really not helpful therapy. And, that motivated me even more. I was like, oh, I think I know the right stuff. to do what was really helpful. So that motivated me to just do individual therapy. And then, in my marriage, I've had a lot of experience with couples therapy and had similar experiences, right? Sometimes you have really good experiences and sometimes it's not helpful at all. One thing that I realized a lot was that, the skills that we were taught and the tools, they were really great in session, but they weren't like in my. Perspective or experience, they weren't super transferrable to like the outside world. Like it sounds great in session, but I'm not really gonna do that like when you're having a fight or something. During COVID when me and, my husband was working from home, we were in this tiny 1100 square foot condo with our two kids. I wasn't working and we were having a hard time. And so I went and started researching all the like couples relationships, books I can find. And I happened to come across fierce Intimacy by Terry Real, and I read it and I was like. Wow, this guy gets it. It's so practical. I totally it just makes sense to me. And then, it really motivated me, like just what I learned in the book really helped my marriage. And, at the same time I had looked for RLT therapists near me, and I had a hard time finding him.
A quick note, RLT stands for relational life therapy. And is the modality that our mentor, terry real teacher. Teaches
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:So then I really became interested in it, and then I found you, and then I, went and, you helped me get trained in it and I felt so passionately about how helpful,, these RLT tools are and it really stood out to me from other therapy modalities and I think that's what really encouraged me to start working with couples before in my experience, It never really clicked with me. And so when I found something that did, I was really motivated and excited and I wanted to be able to kinda share that with other people and help them.
Track 1:Nice. Talking about tools in the session and then getting home is a lot different and I totally get that. How does one actually do the tools outside this session? And as I'm asking that, I think the simple answer doing them, but I, if.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah, I feel like there's one really important tool above anything else, and that's like taking a timeout, right? And so if I can get to a timeout and pull myself back out of the fight, then I feel like I can compose myself, put it together and figure out, okay, how can I effectively go forward with this? How can we come to some kind of resolution or whatever we're gonna do? How can we get back on track? And I feel like,, just the idea, even though it seems so simple of a timeout. Taking a break, whoever you know recognizes that the fight's not becoming productive. Just taking that break, setting a time and coming back to it is really the number one thing you can do is pull yourself away from it because in the moment it's really difficult, right? when you're just so escalated or your partner's escalated, you guys are just feeding off each other and it's not productive. So I think the key is really just stepping away for a second and then, gathering yourself, composing yourself, and then coming back to it, I think is really the best thing you can do. I.
Track 1:Yeah, no, I agree. A timeout, so important state of mind. Where we're triggered, whatever you wanna call it, we're in fight, flight, or flee, whatever it is. When we're in those modes, we do not care about relationship tools.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah.
Track 1:and, I like, it's such a, it's a good reminder of calling the timeout, taking space and coming back to it. I showed us this story in session, I don't know actually 30 minutes ago. But we were talking about shame and grandiosity and I know you know that term being trained by Terry reel, but talked about being one up and one down. And a couple years ago my wife said, Jason, I want to get our daughter in daycare. And I had a one-up response like what the hell? Why do I have to get her in daycare? What are you thinking? I had to take a little bit of space and to reflect on what was going on. But since I took that space, I was able to realize, oh, that triggered a little bit of shame. A little bit of shame of, dang Jason, you're not making enough money to have a nanny And then I was able to share that. But that was a quick sort of top of mind story for me, of the importance of taking time. So thank you for bringing that up.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah. No, and I try to,, really emphasize with my clients like. Doesn't matter who needs the time. Don't get caught up in who's gotta call. She's the one who isn't calm. She needs to call. Whoever sees it's not becoming productive. The best thing you can do is just say, Hey, let's take two hours or however long.
Very cool i love that
Track 1:Again, feel free to pass on this, but you mentioned earlier Covid, it was you, your husband, and a condo, two kids. How did you two survive?
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah. Like I said, that book was really helpful. The idea of like first and second consciousness was really helpful. right? We don't take a step back and say, this is how I'm gonna react, but how can I stop myself and go to that second consciousness? That more productive response, that healthier response. And so it just took a lot of work. I'm a big, meditation fan and I think that was really helpful. It. What I noticed from meditation, which I found invaluable, was it just giving me like this, quarter of a second pause before I reacted, just to think and step back and, oh, maybe I don't wanna say, you know, that sassy comment right now, or maybe I don't wanna do this, maybe I don't wanna yell at my kids right now. I wanna take a step and I want to think, and then. If I need to step away, go journal, go scream into a pillow, go for a walk, whatever I need to do. But it gave me that capability to be able to just make that decision before acting right. Take a little control of my behaviors versus they were controlling me before that.
Track 1:Yeah. That's great. I know Terry Real says that's the foundational work right there.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah.
Track 1:Creating a little bit of space between your trigger and your response. How did you, was it reading the book? How did you, how do you do that Like I mean
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:yeah, so I was I actually reached out to a parenting coach and through all of my through schooling, as you probably experienced too, they do they encourage self-care and through my pre previous experiences in therapy, I got a lot of encouragement to try meditation and I used to always say, I have anxiety in ADHD, I'm never match dating like you know, like, nope. And then I was really, desperate. I was being, you know, short with my kids. I was just, short with my husband, I was desperate and I reached out to a parenting coach and she said to help yourself with that irritability, meditation's gonna be the most helpful. she told me, if I do two to three minutes a day for 10 days, I'll see an improvement. And so I was. Challenge accepted I'll give it 10 days, I'll give it 20 to 30 minutes total. And I saw improvement. It just very slowly started giving me tiny bit more space between how I reacted to whatever. And that. It was, like I said, it's invaluable and then the more I'd meditate, the longer that space got and it just gave me so much more. Control. And like I said, I have anxiety, so that's appealing to me to have more control So it gave me a little bit more, and I really it was just mind blowing to me, to have this experience where, oh, I don't, I had a very angry dad, and he would just explode. And so it was a whole realization that. Oh, this doesn't have to control me like, has been my experience growing up and my experience as an adult is just kinda my my moods would really control me, especially when those moods were, more negative, like anger or, and, feeling anxious or whatever. That would really control me and I noticed that the value In meditating and giving me a little bit more of that power. And so I, I saw improvements in my relationship with my kids, with my own self worth.'cause I wasn't beating myself up because did something. Oh, I would've never done that if I would've thought about it first so it really helped.
Track 1:Yeah. That's really cool. What if someone says, yeah, meditation sounds good, but I don't have time for it.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah. That's why I always say start with two to three minutes and then it's on you hope. My hope is that will be enough motivation, but I tell people a lot, make it part of your, make it when I encourage people to do two to three minutes a day, I notice that they'll say, yeah, I can squeeze that in whenever, and I always say no. That. You probably won't, say I'm gonna do it every morning, or I'm gonna do it every night, and you make some kind of little like rule with it. So before I drink my coffee in the morning, I meditate, before I put my pajamas on at night, I meditate before I brush my teeth for bed, I meditate, right? Making some kind of first meditate, then this and that can really help. Making that like I said, like a rule.
Track 1:Yeah, that's great. So what you're saying, learning the first and second. Hey, I'm triggered, but creating a little bit of space, I don't have to go with that triggering, I can pause, I can take a deep breath. And then supplementing that with meditation, maybe aiding in that practice um, reading fierce intimacy that really made it so you two didn't kill each other
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:it really, it did help., learning that first and second consciousness and then also learning the meditation and that, I feel like meditation was really the tool that gave me the ability to get to second consciousness. I was more patient with my husband because I wasn't yelling at my kids or snapping on them as much Um, that was a positive impact on their behavior as well, because I was modeling healthier behavior to them. And then that was really helpful in my relationship with my husband because there was a lot more peace. Throughout the house, right? And so it wasn't just all chaos all the time, me so stressed out and just, irritable and snappy and then my kids feeding off of that, my husband feeding off of that after he's been working all day. It was just
Track 1:Hmm.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:truly chaos,
Track 1:Yeah.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:just I feel. Just interrupting it in such a way that, just one of those things, if we can interrupt a little bit, it can slow the whole system down,
Track 1:that's great. Good for you.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah. It's a work in front.
Track 1:yeah. No, I totally get it. Yeah, no, I'm, I am very, partial to meditation as well. And essentially what you're saying is the idea of awareness. In theory can create a little bit of space. heard this term, you're responding, not reacting less, reacting more, responding.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:That's exactly it. And then you can even get a little bit of, you know, recognizing that you might be feeling a little bit triggered and that feeling can grow, but you can get a step ahead and say, I'm noticing this in my body first. So you can brace yourself. You can prepare yourself, remove yourself, whatever you need to do. But I feel like it's really valuable information to be able to recognize what you're feeling because at that point it's.
Track 1:yeah. Yeah. That's where the timeout comes in.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah.
Track 1:mentioned you. I know for me, when I started getting a little frustrated agitated, our littlest, our two year old picks it up and what she'll say is, it's okay, daddy And I'm like, damn, you're right. It is okay..And that could be helpful. And plus she's so darn cute that you can't get mad at that. And it's like, yeah, you're okay. You're right. Fundamentally it's okay. But I think it's important, if we can cultivate, space. Between again, triggered a response and how we wanna show up. I think that's really, really important. Essentially what you were talking about first and second consciousness, cultivating more of a second consciousness is important because then we can think about, okay, how do I really wanna show up right? And what I make up and feel free to. Be like Sure at times, like your motivation, gosh, I don't show like my dad did at times.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:No. Yeah, you're totally right. And you know what I tell clients a lot is that my, understanding of first and second consciousness is I. A lot of times we respond in anger and I tell clients a lot, anger is almost always covering up a more vulnerable emotion. And so I look at anger is oftentimes that first consciousness, when people tell me in sessions that they feel angry, I always ask them to explain tell me if that anger could be put into words. What would it say and almost every time I can help them get to the more vulnerable emotion. well, I'm really mad that, he didn't call me when he said he was going to. That might sound a little bit more like disappointment or rejection. And so that anger will push our partner away, right? And so that's almost that first consciousness because we don't wanna be vulnerable with somebody who's just hurt us, but if we can get to that underlying feeling that is and creating that anger, then that part, that vulnerable feeling, like that disappointment that'll pull your partner in. Right? Because a lot of people, they don't care if their partner's angry, okay. But a lot, most of the time you don't want your partner to be hurting. They, you don't want them to be sad or, feeling some kind of pain that will really Kind of align you and your partner against, how can we make you not feel this pain? But when it's that anger, it's usually just against each other, so I feel like that really shifts things a lot.
Track 1:totally. Like being vulnerable almost, in a way, invites collaboration. If your partner's open.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah,,
Track 1:do you work with couples that have kids and maybe there's been some stress with that?
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah, definitely. A lot of the couples I work with have kids. I have my own kids seven and four, and so I do feel like that especially when I'm doing consultations and stuff, that is something that draws clients towards me. If that, if we have children in similar ages, because it's, having kids, it's, it does add in completely different dynamic into relationships, I at least am often encouraging my couples. You've gotta make ti more time for your relationship. You've gotta, have these date nights and stuff. And although I can see the value and the importance in it. It's not so simple when you have kids, and I'm sensitive to that because I've had the same experience. It's not so easy to just have a babysitter and to plan date nights and babysitters are hard to find. They're expensive. It, there's a lot of factors involved. The stress that we have that our kids put us through it's. It's so easy to take it out on your partner because there are sweet little kids. Even if they're making us frustrated, we don't wanna take it out on them, but, so the next closest person is our partner, and so they're gonna get it, and so just being able to recognize that and. Learn how to give voice to that, right? The frustration and the very real challenges that both parents are facing in different ways, and have them use that to come together versus that driving them apart, which I think without the tools, that's the the natural course of it is it will drive you apart unless you're really, intentional about. Staying as a team with that and really using these challenges to empathize with each other. And no one gets what it's like to be with your, you know, little seven year old, more than your partner. And no one gets how hard that can be as much as your partner, and so to really turn that around and use it as a tool to strengthen your relationship, I think can be really valuable.
Track 1:Yeah. So what I hear you saying is a way, you know, a little bit of emotional intimacy, which is partners sharing with each other. Oh my gosh, this is really hard.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah. Yeah. and just being able to hear your partner rather than, how can I make it less hard, like. a lot of times they can't make it less hard. It just is. And and just saying, I get it. This is really hard and this is a particularly hard season in our life right now, right?
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah. I know for me if I'm, that I my best. Or if, I'm not trying to be intentional, I can be really judgmental. And it's gosh, why are you doing it that way? That was dumb, right? So obviously that is not, super helpful. My wife Jess, she does this and I give her a lot of credit for it. Sometimes we get into it, and normally she's the one who initiates this, but she's like. Jason, remember we're a team and it's yes. We're a team. And we're trying our best and having kids is tough.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah,
Transitioning a little bit, Kayla and I both had experiences of good couples therapy, not so good couples therapy. And i asked her how do you know the couples therapist is maybe not a good fit for you
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:Yeah, I always encourage people to first if you can do a Consultation. That's, the best first step to take. But I don't know, for me both in couples and individual therapy, it's just been like, I don't, it's almost like a sense, it just like it's either clicking or it's not, and I. I don't know if it's a good analogy or not, but almost like on a date, right? it's either going well and you can tell this is good. I want to keep talking to this person, right? If you're feeling like, oh, I don't know if I should say this, then I think that might be a sign that maybe it's not the best fit for you, but when you feel really I do wanna talk about this. I wanna bring this up and maybe they can help me with this. Like I feel like that's a good sign that it's going well. The most important thing is that you trust the therapist. I think that I. Trumps everything else. How they were trained, what they do, anything is if you feel that connection and that trust with them and you feel safe enough to be vulnerable.'cause if that's not there, then you're not gonna get anywhere.
Track 1:Yeah.
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:remember one therapist in particular, my husband doesn't like therapy, so it was already a challenge to get him to go at all. And I remember she was really being pushy and I could tell he was just kinda shutting down. And then she asked me at one point, she said, what do you think about this? And I said, I think you're pushing him out away from therapy. I think you're, convincing him that this is the reason that he doesn't wanna go to therapy he was like, yeah, you're right. It was, you can just get that sense. When it doesn't feel natural, it doesn't feel safe, like a safe space. I think that's the best indicator
Kayla. Thank you so much for your time and your insights. This has been so awesome. I love the topic of first and second consciousness and meditation. So in addition to going to Colorado relationship recovery, to find you. How can people find you on your personal website
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:you can go on uh, south denver therapy.com and that's my website and you can schedule there. And so yeah,
Track 1:Yeah. Cool. Okay, awesome. Kayla, I'll let you get back to it.
But thanks again for your time and your insight
kayla_1_10-30-2023_161636:All right. Thanks so much, Jason. Nice.
As always thank you so much for listening and if you liked this give us a good review and share this with someone who could benefit from this information Take care